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lolnewxpac
08-05-2007, 08:51 AM
Post: #31
RE: lolnewxpac
I picked up a copy of Dawn of War and I'm playing through the campaigns now. Although it's more cartoony than I would like I'm already having Total Annihilation flashbacks (which is a good thing).
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08-05-2007, 11:16 AM
Post: #32
RE: lolnewxpac
Did you get dark crusade, or just the regular game? Dark Crusade is alot of fun, there's slightly less story driving it, but it's also very replayable that way.
Further, I don't really see the Warhammer MMO going that well ( I still want to try it mind you.) Warhammer kind of has two modes, tabletop war game, or fantasy novel. The point of warhammer is that it's big armies fighting big battles, with a couple superior dudes thrown in. The table top focuses on the big army part, the books focus on teh superior dudes, but the idea can't support a bunch of people like Gotrek running around doing whatever they want. At best the average PC would be like Felix (to use the above example) he's important and is a tough bastard, but still is still sort of there to get his bacon saved and back up the guy with the possessed axe. Also, what/who will you be fighting? There isn't really a way to say "hey everyone, lets go raid Nagash" when everyone is going to be afraid of getting stabbed in the back from grudges, or chaos, or not loving trees enough, or what ever. And as much fun as a totally pvp oriented MMO sounds, it'll break down into a bunch of low level people being oppressed by the guy that levelled his toon at 2 in the morning when no one was around (C.F. The WoW southpark episode.)

You stay away from me, Tiny Frankenstein!
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08-05-2007, 11:35 AM
Post: #33
RE: lolnewxpac
They're selling it as a you can't solo this game type package. The buffs/auras/composition is currently in such a way that a group of 10 may be 30 times stronger 1 and 100 may be 1000 stronger (or like I said that's at least how they're pitching it). Although they're really selling people on the big scale there are small scale encounters/instances to support the war probably something along the lines of collecting ram hides in AV. There actually is some PvE to the game....but you won't hear it from them because that's not why you're picking up the game.

Ichron and I have been going back and forth on this a bit and I see it as mostly wave of body attacks. Each side zerging a point until finally 1 zerg can push the other off. He is trying to sell me on the point of small groups within the group breaking off and weakening defenses/causing diversions/seconday objectives which I'm sure will happen. But we won't know the extent.

I'm also worried about server balance. Imagine if org and UC didn't have guard zergs to defend our capitals. Would you want to spend days/weeks/months on a toon and login to middle of your capital to get 1 shot over and over again?

I'm very excited about the game but I'm very skeptical about how they're going to pull it off.
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08-05-2007, 11:47 AM
Post: #34
RE: lolnewxpac
I'm not a Warhammer nerd so I can't feel depressed about the disparity between an MMORPG and table-top or novel settings, but from what I know of the WAR backstory, the big evil Druchii leader-guy mind-controlled and magically imparted power to the Big Boss of the Bloody Sun Boyz orc clan, which then dominated the other orc clans and formed a WAAAGH to attack the Dwarves. The Dwarves ask the emperor for help because the orcs manage to destroy some big old mighty fortress that had never fallen and the Dwarves are freaking out. At the same time Tzeentch has started a plague in the Empire in preparation for attacking. So Karl calls on the aid of the High Elves who send over a bunch of troops to help, thus weakening their homeland to the attacks of the Druchii.

Pretty much all the alliances in WAR are alliances of convenience and if you can rationalize Forsaken and Blood Elves in the Horde, you can probably manage the same for the WAR factions.

As far as higher levels ganking newbs, firstly, there's no reward for it, and secondly, Mythic is going so far as to make people that are outlevel for the zone to turn into a chicken that pecks people for one damage when they go into a pvp area. It's a bit over the top in my opinion but it goes to show how far they're willing to go to prevent that kind of thing.

As far as the large battles, they're saying they want to be able to support battles with 100-300 people involved. I'm sure that's still short of the numbers supposedly represented in table-top but it seems pretty large to me.
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08-05-2007, 11:52 AM (This post was last modified: 08-05-2007 12:47 PM by Callum.)
Post: #35
RE: lolnewxpac
JR, for the city sieges you have to go through stages to weaken the capital defenses sufficiently to allow an attack. They have a podcast describing the concept under "Battlefronts." They've also said that there will be small safe zones in the cities so you aren't just logging in and immediately getting one shot. Additionally they have said that over time the NPC resistance in the cities will rise so capitals can't be held indefinitely.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl...26hs%3Dc4u

^^ That's translated from French but it's possible to understand the translation pretty well and it has several videos with commentary in English. The last video, showcasing some of the places and architecture, is pretty amazing.
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08-05-2007, 12:59 PM
Post: #36
RE: lolnewxpac
And you don't foresee an army of chickens running around killing lowbies? I sure as hell do. And face it, no on is going to want to be the guy that weakens the secondary defenses or whatever, they'll all want to be the guy that whacks Karl Franz. Did anyone ever WANT to kill the rams in AV? or get the mines, or even defend a fucking graveyard for 2 minutes? no.

You stay away from me, Tiny Frankenstein!
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08-05-2007, 01:22 PM
Post: #37
RE: lolnewxpac
Gramsbrudder Wrote:And you don't foresee an army of chickens running around killing lowbies? I sure as hell do. And face it, no on is going to want to be the guy that weakens the secondary defenses or whatever, they'll all want to be the guy that whacks Karl Franz. Did anyone ever WANT to kill the rams in AV? or get the mines, or even defend a fucking graveyard for 2 minutes? no.

No one wants to. But watch an AV. Someone is almost always in the mines. I've spent 50%+ of my time in AB hanging out at a flag waiting to see if someone would attack and others do to. That's where Ichron's point of the small guilds within the zerg come into play.

And Yes Callum I've been going through some of the stuff from WAR and reading but it's also in it's Alpha stages. Lot can change, lots will change and lots will need to be changed even after it goes live. Until it's Gold and I'm in there to poke around it's all speculation and marketing.
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08-05-2007, 01:36 PM
Post: #38
RE: lolnewxpac
Gramsbrudder Wrote:And you don't foresee an army of chickens running around killing lowbies? I sure as hell do. And face it, no on is going to want to be the guy that weakens the secondary defenses or whatever, they'll all want to be the guy that whacks Karl Franz. Did anyone ever WANT to kill the rams in AV? or get the mines, or even defend a fucking graveyard for 2 minutes? no.

It's impossible to completely stop griefing and we can go back and forth on this forever, the main point is that keeping people from being idiots is a high priority for Mythic.

As far as the secondary stuff goes, yeah I liked getting mines and farms and ram hides because then I knew "I'm a major factor in this victory, these other people were just attack bots." Also you don't get the chance to whack the leaders until the secondary stuff has been done so it's not like you get stuck skinning bears while idiots get to have all the fun.

And JR, sure stuff will change. I've been following WAR for the last four months pretty intensively and in that time they've changed their mind on exactly how they are levelling characters, for example. However the tier system they have in place for the city/leader assaults is part of the basic structure of the game. It dictates how they've organized factions, how they've laid out zones, how they organize their instanced scenarios, and more. The generic concept of "work your way up the tiers to take over the capital" is not going to change.
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08-05-2007, 01:45 PM (This post was last modified: 08-05-2007 01:48 PM by Thedruidjr.)
Post: #39
RE: lolnewxpac
I'm not doubting that Callum Razz I like the tier idea, it stretches the game out a bit and gives you a chance to defend and regroup instead of
11:00 Raid forms
11:05 Raid is at doorstep
11:08 Raid is bitching at each other over who got KB on leader

What I'm concerned about is all the things that can go wrong with NPC interference to resolve balance issues. Think back to TM guard zerg.

Granted Mythic has a HUGE advantage of getting watch all the stuff Blizzard did wrong, but at the same point solutions bring new problems.

I'm cautiously optimistic about this game. Smile

PS
I have both expansions Dark Crusade and Winter Assualt. I just learned that a giant rhino looking thing can take out 20 space marine squads LOL.
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08-05-2007, 06:30 PM
Post: #40
RE: lolnewxpac
You mean the squiggoth? Yeah, those are fun. I personally like the space marines best over all though, their dialogue is the best. I especially like the librarian (for obvious reasons.) I've actually used the line "hope is the first step on the road to disappointment" in conversation. And you just can't beat "An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."

You stay away from me, Tiny Frankenstein!
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08-05-2007, 06:39 PM
Post: #41
RE: lolnewxpac
Yeah I saw a Squiggoth and figured a marine zerg would rip him apart. After he ripped the 3rd wave apart and I barely dented him I decided maybe it was time to rethink that strategy.

The names are great. There's a weapon called The Flamer and one of the most bad ass humans is The Librarian. There were 1 or 2 other ones that had me giggling but I forgot.
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08-05-2007, 07:09 PM
Post: #42
RE: lolnewxpac
When I get a job, and have a desk, I'm going to have a little table top librarian mini on it.

You stay away from me, Tiny Frankenstein!
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08-05-2007, 07:34 PM
Post: #43
RE: lolnewxpac
totally hijacked

envy me.
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08-06-2007, 04:22 AM (This post was last modified: 08-06-2007 04:23 AM by Aterignis.)
Post: #44
RE: lolnewxpac
High Gothic is a travesty!

btw, since we're talking 40k here...I've had the sig on my shit for years now...and it is from the Dark Angels codex, except, in a moment of beautiful irony, translated from their english into proper, classical Latin.

Unum momentum laxitatis ad aetam haeresis potest agere.
Numquam veniam da.
Numquam dedisce.
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