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Rogue Review Preview
07-02-2006, 07:06 PM (This post was last modified: 07-04-2006 03:40 AM by James.)
Post: #1
Rogue Review Preview
As quoted from the guy from the rogue forum - Here

Quote:The review is well underway and we wanted to share a sort of first glimpse into the changes being made for the rogue talent review. Keep in mind that these changes are not complete or final, and the below information is likely to alter as we move into our testing phases. While not everything is listed, the below list encompasses the majority of changes being made in the review.

I'll be working in the weeks to come to get as much additional information as possible, but it is likely that quite a bit of the final information regarding talent changes will not be fully announced until the talent calculators go live. Of course you'll also be able to actually play around with the changes too once the Public Test Realms go up.

I'm going to just list the changes and provide additional information where possible or necessary. Let's get to it.


The following talents have been removed: Improved Deadly Poison, Improved Distract, Throwing Weapon Specialization, Improved Vanish, and Rapid Concealment.


Improved Instant Poison is now "Improved Poisons" and increases your chance to apply ALL poisons by 2/4/6/8/10%.


Rapid Concealment has been merged with Camouflage, by combining these talents you not only get a great talent to start off the tree, but obviously it frees up a number of points to be spent elsewhere.


Murder will now also apply to all finishing moves. The benefit this will provide to output and attack combinations is fairly straightforward.


Vile Poisons now gives your poisons a chance to resist dispel effects, in addition to increasing poison damage.


Improved Kidney Shot has been changed, and will instead increase the damage taken by the target while they are affected by Kidney Shot. This talent no longer reduces the cooldown of Kidney Shot.


Improved Sprint has been changed, and will instead have a 50/100% chance to remove all movement impairing effects when you activate your Sprint ability. This talent no longer reduces the cooldown of Sprint.


Improved Evasion renamed to Endurance, and will add a Sprint cooldown reduction.


New talent Weapon Expertise in the Combat tree, increases your weapon skill with all melee weapons. The recovery of damage with an increased weapon skill should be a good boost to overall output.


Initiative is being reduced to a 3 point talent, but resulting in the same 75% end chance to add an additional combo point.


Elusiveness is being reduced to a 3 point talent, but resulting in the same 75 sec cooldown reduction to Evasion, Blind, and Vanish.


Ghostly Strike now has a reduced Energy cost, the reduction of Energy was enough to make it necessary to also reduce the damage output slightly.


Improved Garrotes damage reduction will be removed. This is being changed as part of an overall improvement for Garrote.


Setup is being moved higher up in the tree, becoming a 16 point talent with no prerequisites, helping move the talent in reach of specific builds.


New talent Heightened Senses in the subtlety tree, increases your Stealth detection, and reduces the chance for you to be hit by spells and ranged attacks.


Hemorrhage will be moved up in the tree to become a 21 point talent. This should help to place the ability in a more reachable position, and allow for a little more versatility with specific talent builds.


New talent Deadliness in the Subtlety tree, increases your Attack Power by a percentage.


Premeditation will have its Energy requirement removed, changed to an instant cast, and range increased. Its cooldown will remain the same. Premeditation will now be pre-reqd by Preperation.


Vanish will now remove effects that allow the caster to remain aware of the rogues presence, such as Mind Vision and Hunters Mark.


Garrote, Rupture, and Eviscerate are being increased in damage. More details to come.


Expose Armor will now reduce armor by a percentage.

I'll be continuing to speak with the designers and collecting as much additional information as possible in the coming weeks.

Thanks for reading.

wtb talent calculator

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07-02-2006, 11:33 PM
Post: #2
 
fucking overpowered rogues

retarded

final
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07-03-2006, 01:03 AM
Post: #3
 
Sparkk Wrote:fucking overpowered rogues

retarded

final

hi sparkk

envy me.
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07-03-2006, 03:34 AM
Post: #4
 
sparkk go make love to your hand...



























of rag

Why?
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07-03-2006, 07:33 AM
Post: #5
 
Sparkk Wrote:fucking overpowered rogues

retarded

final

But your farmer rogue will not be able get dazed with imp sprint sparkk, how could you turn that down?

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07-03-2006, 08:09 AM
Post: #6
 
Hmmm, all very interesting. We shall see what actually happens when calculators are posted much later on. All I can say is "rapid concealment has been merged with Camouflage" 'bout frickin' time. Having three separate 5 point stealth improving talents has always pissed me off, that just sucks up too many points. My rogue will be happy with that alone.

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You switched the signs then you closed the blinds
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07-03-2006, 11:02 AM
Post: #7
 
LOL @ zulka Very Happy

that was hilarious Very Happy
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07-03-2006, 12:44 PM
Post: #8
 
The more I think about this preview the less I am liking it. I am just going to go through the list and weigh in with my comments.

Quote:The following talents have been removed: Improved Deadly Poison, Improved Distract, Throwing Weapon Specialization, Improved Vanish, and Rapid Concealment.
Trimming some fat out of the trees, but no actual change here because no rogue would ever put points in any of these talents.

Quote:Improved Instant Poison is now "Improved Poisons" and increases your chance to apply ALL poisons by 2/4/6/8/10%.
Good change, but will probably be overshadowed by the new vile poisons for pvp.

Quote:Rapid Concealment has been merged with Camouflage, by combining these talents you not only get a great talent to start off the tree, but obviously it frees up a number of points to be spent elsewhere.
Very nice change and will end the Camo vs. MoD debate for good.

Quote:Murder will now also apply to all finishing moves. The benefit this will provide to output and attack combinations is fairly straightforward.
This is nice for leveling and a fresh 60, but once you have +5% to hit from gear or precision this talent is still worthless.

Quote:Vile Poisons now gives your poisons a chance to resist dispel effects, in addition to increasing poison damage.
Very nice for pvp now.

Quote:Improved Kidney Shot has been changed, and will instead increase the damage taken by the target while they are affected by Kidney Shot. This talent no longer reduces the cooldown of Kidney Shot.
Excellent change, Imp KS used to actually screw you over because the cooldown was too short and put itself in its own DR. If the damage vulnerability applies even if the stun doesn't this may give hemo rogues more damage output in pve. The pvp application is obvious.

Quote:Improved Sprint has been changed, and will instead have a 50/100% chance to remove all movement impairing effects when you activate your Sprint ability. This talent no longer reduces the cooldown of Sprint.
I really like this change to help keep us from being kited to oblivion.

Quote:Improved Evasion renamed to Endurance, and will add a Sprint cooldown reduction.
If the sprint cooldown is the same as Improved Sprint this makes Endurance a decent pick up.

Quote:New talent Weapon Expertise in the Combat tree, increases your weapon skill with all melee weapons. The recovery of damage with an increased weapon skill should be a good boost to overall output.
Awesome talent for combat raiders.

Quote:Initiative is being reduced to a 3 point talent, but resulting in the same 75% end chance to add an additional combo point.
Frees up a couple points for a pvp build.

Quote:Elusiveness is being reduced to a 3 point talent, but resulting in the same 75 sec cooldown reduction to Evasion, Blind, and Vanish.
Frees up a couple points if anyone ever uses this talent.

Quote:Ghostly Strike now has a reduced Energy cost, the reduction of Energy was enough to make it necessary to also reduce the damage output slightly.
Depending on the energy reduction this may become a new hemo type fast combo point generating build.

Quote:Improved Garrotes damage reduction will be removed. This is being changed as part of an overall improvement for Garrote.
Probably still not worth it but at least it isn't spending talent points to make the ability worse than it was untalented.

Quote:Setup is being moved higher up in the tree, becoming a 16 point talent with no prerequisites, helping move the talent in reach of specific builds.
I can't remember what setup does now, I will edit this later when I look it up.

Quote:New talent Heightened Senses in the subtlety tree, increases your Stealth detection, and reduces the chance for you to be hit by spells and ranged attacks.
Long overdue, but it will be too deep in Sub to be accessible to raiding builds, so this only helps out in pvp.

Quote:Hemorrhage will be moved up in the tree to become a 21 point talent. This should help to place the ability in a more reachable position, and allow for a little more versatility with specific talent builds.
Very nice for Hemo rogues, it will free up some points to get some of the nice new talents.

Quote:New talent Deadliness in the Subtlety tree, increases your Attack Power by a percentage.
This should really be a agility buff. Come on, hunters have one. They really need to fix the disparity between alliance and horde, more on this later. Still too deep in Sub for anyone but pvpers to get.

Quote:Premeditation will have its Energy requirement removed, changed to an instant cast, and range increased. Its cooldown will remain the same. Premeditation will now be pre-reqd by Preperation.
Hey this skill can acutally be used now. Only good for pvp though.

Quote:Vanish will now remove effects that allow the caster to remain aware of the rogues presence, such as Mind Vision and Hunters Mark.
It should have always been this way.

Quote:Garrote, Rupture, and Eviscerate are being increased in damage. More details to come.
Lets hope they scale or we will just reach the dps cutoff where the scaling SnD becomes better again.

Quote:Expose Armor will now reduce armor by a percentage.
Half nerf half buff. Using this on a low armor target will yeild less returns, more returns on a high armor target. If it now stacks with sunder it is a nice ability for pve.


Overall this preview shows a huge buff to the Sub tree and pvp ability in general. It is doing next to nothing to alleviate raiding concerns. We still have no utility, except maybe a little extra damage we can provide to melee if expose armor stacks with sunder. There is still no pve opener for swords/fists/maces, you know, 3/4 of the weapons that we can use. There was no compression of the 17 points basically every rogue has in Assassination, thereby not really freeing up any points to spend in the new talents. For combat daggers I don't see any points freed up to spend on something else. Combat swords will probably be able to shuffle some points around the get Weapon Expertise. Other than that all of the new talents seem to be pvp builds only. We certainly won't be able to get heightened senses, which is something all rogues need desperately.

We still have basically the crappiest 31 point talents in the game. Vigor is only useful in pvp and then is only real useful with the 5/8 nightslayer bonus. Premeditation is now actually a usuable skill, whereas it wasn't before, but is still only viable in a pvp situation. AR is the only good one we have, and its cooldown is still too long for what it does. I'd also like to see the cooldown on vanish reduce to about 2 minutes. I'd really like it to put us out of combat in boss fights again as well.

There is also still the problem of Blessing of Kings. While this is a general problem relating to more than rogues, it is so bad now it is affecting our gear and talents. Because alliance has BoK they have stopped putting agility on items, instead putting absurd amount of AP on them because it isn't affected by BoK. Now a talent that should be a percentage agility buff is AP instead. I don't care how they fix it, but they need to stop punishing us for their crappy foresight.

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07-03-2006, 01:41 PM
Post: #9
 
Reila Wrote:There is also still the problem of Blessing of Kings. While this is a general problem relating to more than rogues, it is so bad now it is affecting our gear and talents. Because alliance has BoK they have stopped putting agility on items, instead putting absurd amount of AP on them because it isn't affected by BoK. Now a talent that should be a percentage agility buff is AP instead. I don't care how they fix it, but they need to stop punishing us for their crappy foresight.

yeah, thats an issue that belongs (mostly) to rogues warriors and hunters. casters get a mana health and spirit increase, but no damage increase. which really sucks for ally casters as opposed to ally physical dmg dealers. but they really should just give horde a version of BoK or reformat / remove it. its a completely overpowered spell
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07-03-2006, 05:41 PM
Post: #10
Hunters mark
If you read what hunters mark does then this is stupid, the whole point of hunters mark is that hunters can see the target they are tracking no matter what
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07-03-2006, 05:58 PM
Post: #11
 
How can you track something you cannot see? Its also a 5 minute cooldown

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07-03-2006, 06:00 PM
Post: #12
 
My only real comment on all this is that the new talent that makes rogue poisons resistant to dispel shows they've developed the technology for making debuffs resistant to dispel which makes me think there are a couple of warlock changes in the future too. zomg.
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07-03-2006, 06:03 PM
Post: #13
 
James Wrote:How can you track something you cannot see? Its also a 5 minute cooldown


have you EVER tracked something hunting..
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07-03-2006, 06:07 PM
Post: #14
 
Have you ever hunted something thats invisible before moo? Rolling Eyes

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07-03-2006, 06:10 PM
Post: #15
 
Remember, Hunter's Mark is magic!

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